Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. So no time like the present to practice where you can. Additionally, a Level 62 doesn't really have the tools to evaluate and sell a promotion to a 63. Title doesn't matter, that's a job description. Microsoft Software Engineering Manager Salary Levels | 6figr In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. Thanx for it. Help make it more accurate by adding yours. Microsoft Director level role - Blind Director of Business Development for ATALIAN Global Services, in a senior leadership role based in Singapore driving sustainable growth in Asia. If you have an itching to talk about something else, please go here: But Mini, I Want To Talk About Posted by L7 equals L64 or L65. L66 is Principal band. High energy, result oriented senior executive with 20yrs+ of comprehensive Sales, Marketing & Operations management experience in IT (Solutions & Services) in GCC region, with a record of. Why does the company reward and keep these numbskull managers that hold people back? I've been struggling with the elusive 59 -> 60 move for quite some time. and If youre not doing a great job at your current level youre not even going to be considered for the next level. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. Most Directors are 63 and the occasional 64. Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. . * Leaving the company - oh, the all too easy escape: I have seen that mentioned in quite a few comments. I've changed jobs but came back to the group that's been the most supportive. You're cursed for life.2. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. Here are the key facts about senior director resumes to help you get the job: The average senior director resume is 776 words long The average senior director resume is 1.7 pages long based on 450 words per page. At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. Feedback is not detailed or actionable. Over 20 years of experience in professional services including, architecture, corporate real estate, and integrated facility management, operating at a global and regional level. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. Normally this is acceptable but right now i smell lawsuit. That is the guy to beat. The problem is you can't tell if you've done something to piss him off or if he's doing it because he has to. Microsoft is a Technology Giant and has been the biggest Technology Company in recent years. I was let go from Microsoft recently. as many others posters said: if you are worry too much about promotion chances are you will keep worrying. Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. One thing I learned early is that the manager who says "I fought for you, sorry" is really saying "I'm too weak to make the case." No manager can bail you out of "bad brand jail" past L625. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. My best guess is that you think it should be await. Full stop. Right now I am 56. So if you want a promotion and don't get it: drop everything you are doing now and start working on your promotion, i.e. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). L68 is partner, or you may see GM. Duuuude, your boss is the way to your promotion. So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. Microsoft senior leadership team under Satya Nadella Tech Here are the most important execs at Microsoft under Satya Nadella Jordan Novet @jordannovet Key Points Microsoft's executive team. If you read CSPs this is the underlying message more or less. If you're not there yet and your boss was asked that question by your skip-level-boss, what is your boss's answer? "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Amy Hood. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well. The "how" now has broader impact. And to your skip level. because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions What Is A Senior Director - Zippia an ex-manager used to tell me, if the org needs him to sweep the floor, he would ensure that he would be the best sweeper in the world (no offense to my janitor friends, just an expression). I am not worried. I changed 3 groups at Microsoft. The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. They have commitments to grow their employees. Same here. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. Copyright 2008-2023, Glassdoor, Inc. "Glassdoor" and logo are registered trademarks of Glassdoor, Inc. There is only one item in this list: visibility. A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . Keep my word. So yes, Mini's list should get you to 63 anywhere. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around?"1. Mini: Great topic! Microsoft's senior positions start at level 63, according to the crowdsourced tech compensation website Levels.fyi. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. "We have a stable and relatively easy job, and as long as we achieve, we will not get fired." Salman Riaz - Associate Director - S&P Global Market - LinkedIn Amazon Thanks for keeping this focused. One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. This is a large part of his job - getting his reports to excel and getting them (and by extension, himself) some recognition.All of the above assumes you don't suck, though. While I lost a few people who drove great results in that level, overall it was good for their career and also MS over time. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. Most of them are not. Revise if needed. YES, there are people who are awful at all three and still succeed. Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salary levels ranges from 63 (SDE Lead) upto 80 (Corporate VP), with 80 (Corporate VP) level earning average salary of $4851k along with $3675k worth of stock options. Then, he told those have been canceled. mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msft. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.Take the challenge and go after tough problems. Microsoft He/she and you should know exactly what you need to do to get to the next level. If you push too hard or threaten to leave, you will be written off immediately. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? For others, the picture will not be so clear and they may place more weight on perceptions or a set of isolated incidents. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? I take some of the blame for not managing my career more directly, but no one should be offered a promotion when they leave--if they are valuable, let them know before hand! I haven't talked to anyone internally that has anything good to say about it. There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. Do it nicely. Senior Director Global Supply Chain Management transformation Supply Chain Operations SA Juli 2022-Heute9 Monate Lausanne Metropolitan Area Principal Consultant for an international. About Highly experienced director and business leader who has successfully operated at senior management level & currently serves as a non-executive director on the Board of a number of. I am working towards it would say am there 75% of the way. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. For many in our sub, MCS seems to be the place of incompetent managers and just a pitstop to somewhere else. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. If you think you will follow the management career path then get in such role as early as possible. Their self criticism spurs them to improve. I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. I have seen people turn it around. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Anyone know others? I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. When I gave notice, my PUM was in my office within an hour showing me stock levels at 65 and 66, willing to restructure my position pretty much to my liking. They had to be given outlandish levels so as to match their previous compensation. Folks, Im really encouraged by this post and the focus on trying to help make others great. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. Unless you're an asshat, in which case see mini's comment about slapping yourself around and listening to what other's think about you.And in those huge orgs with all the noise it is really easy for folks to rest and *ahem* vest, so you are overlooked by default.The key as mini and others have stated is finding the tech and team you love and everything flows from there (because you will be so excited you will go home and work another 4 hours every night examining customer feedback, competitive products, etc. We have to reduce billions of dollars of cost. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Your level is essentially recognition of your circle of influence or radius of your contribution. 5. 4. . I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). Or at least, more transparent feedback was communicated so you had a real idea of where your career was heading. "Ain't seen nothing yet" is a more popular variant of the same due to a song with that title and refrain. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. +1 on the level balancing difference in subs.As someone who has transferred employees to/from corp/sub both directions and has promoted a bunch of folk, the corp level for a role is 2 numbers higher than the equivalent sub one. Of course not. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. My old boss was a 65 but his title was "principal director of engineering", new boss is the exact same level and job and his title is "principal engineering manager". There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. And I appreciate you screening out the non-productive whining posts. Sometimes the answer is, "well, we'll see" and other times the answer is, "if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it". It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.Can anyone elaborate on that? This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. I know some managers will tell you that HR doesnt want promotions during internal transfers. This is certainly the course that I took. The higher you go, the longer it takes. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. Absolutely. Up until L63, you can pretty continue to be promoted based on raw talent to get things done smartly and efficiently. Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. Senior Director, Data & AI South East Asia lead i.a Aug 2021 - Jan 20226 months Singapore 33NFT Admin & Ops 33NFT Sep 2021 - Present1 year 7 months Netherlands 33NFT is one of the top anonymous. Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. Ask any old mainframer what it was like to be an IBM customer back in the day. There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. A mistake was a huge cost. below 63 one has low influence and above 64, it is more strategizing and less execution.Overall, my experience has been that promotion is the effect of results and good work. Great post. All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. Seniority Levels in the Workplace: Types and What They Mean The skip level is totally nonchalant to her ways. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? Woow. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. There are not a lot of options at that point. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. If they see flaws you have flaws. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. Have you honed in on what aspects of this brand are most important in the calibration discussions and know how you'll show you're a rockstar in these areas? This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. Senior Director Levels at Microsoft 63 Senior Manager SDE Lead 64 Principal EM Principal Director of Engineering 65 Show 7 More Levels United States Average Total Compensation $515,638 Base Salary $243,377 Stock Grant (/yr) $194,043 Bonus $78,217 Get Paid, Not Played Some can even challenge you and give you the tough love and direction you need. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies. Facebook, Go to company page Great post! They don't survive long while others who do little move up. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? Mini-Microsoft, Mini-Microsoft, lean-and-mean! Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. 3. IMHO. Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. (2): Wow, thanks for the early + great feedback. Learn everything I can about the technology (I'm a PM and don't have a CS background so I work extra hard at this and ask lots of questions.)2. Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. "Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. What advice do you have to pass on? For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. The only thing you learn is your bucket, and roughly where in the bucket you fit based on your numbers. Ask yourself: what fraction of your job do you actually enjoy? It's a good time to flip back through that. I suspect they'll make it someone's job to fix it, because it is widely held as a good idea in the company right now. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) As for my own history, successful strategies have followed 3 major buckets:From 59 --> 62 (I started as a 10 in the old system) I simply kicked ass and took no prisoners. Thats why L64->L65 transition is so hard. > What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. Its above level 64 that things get tough, but getting to 64 isn't difficult. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. While a manager can help coach you, and you can follow the advice in this post and comments (most of which are great, by the way), you have no way of knowing if there are 0 or 10 people also on the team doing the same things, ahead of you for the limited number of promotions available. The news is in. They will have thought this out. If you're not an Absolutely! Then L64 took two years. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? I think getting promoted elsewhere is not as tough as getting promoted in CTS-GTSC. Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. Expertise in the following areas: Product Marketing Consistently created groundbreaking, customer-focused value . Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. Is Director and Principal same level in Microsoft? - Quora Senior finance leader with several years of experience as a member of executive teams within large Australian blue chip and global multi-national companies with broad and diverse background and wide-ranging experience. But in an organization this large, how do you avoid title inflation ? It's a matter of human nature for most people not to want someone else to pass them up. How about a thread on the current hiring/moving freeze, or on surviving the New Ice Age? Whenever his lead would ask him to do X he would refuse and insist on doing Y instead. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. Barring extraordindary circumstances each year you will get the "welcome to our group" evaluation.Don't forget the aunts and uncles. I had an expectation to become principal this year. New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. To change Microsoft so that it is small and efficient, and therefore more in line with your thinking?Are you changing your stance because you're leaving the 'hoi polloi' behind? Leaked Microsoft Data Shows Reported Pay for Software - Insider So once again, a big part of your job is learning how to become a ninja at firguring out what your management wants from you -- even when they haven't articulated it in any kind of measurable way -- and then doing it. >> Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate.Wow, those sic[s] really are all [sic]s, and you went out of your way to refute them with invalid proofs and an assumed air of infallibility.Obviously you are a manager of HR managers soon to be promoted to GM. Be nice, and clear in your communications. I think that a compentent dev not a superstar, who follows your advice should make it to 63. This is obviously difficult to manage. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. My rent contract was renewed in September and I have to find another person or risk loosing a 1000 bucks, Mini,Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but when they appear, it doesn't take long before the rest of the organization figures them out and isolates them. Dont compete with them. The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. I would love to be above 60much less 63. And on one total-eclipse-rare occasion, I've been able to be answer the follow-up question: will they reach L65 and say with confidence: Absolutely. I started in 2001 @ L62. Susan O'Neill - Commercial Director, Australia - Microsoft | LinkedIn Director can be just principal in sales or marketing. They came from "hot" product teams. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Where did you hear this? I say this because I have seen really smart people shunned because of 'house-on-fire' attitudes even when they were dead right. ceo/vp/director/manager/lead etc. I guess they are fallible humans too. Pop quiz: who is it? Wow. Are you sure you know what your boss wants? Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Mini himself is quite high level and knowledgable. Do you know why? This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. Lots of very true points. You're selling it in no less than eight different SKUs, (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. Salesmanship is extremely important. The position entails teaching an introductory physics sequence, upper-level physics courses, and related labs. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. This is the multiplier effect, or scope of influence that is often mentioned. They literally lived in GM's office for half a year to get the promo from L64 to L65.3. right? What I think may be worthwhile is understanding the circumstances of those anomalies and figuring out why they occur and how to "incent" management to ensure that they don't occur. The microsoft people have already decided you're not a good 'fit'. "Now that the Annual review is approaching"You're probably too late already. An accomplished and proven Director / Tech & Business Principal / Programme Manager / Business Partner / Service Delivery Manager with a wide-ranging skillset, experienced in leading teams to success. Achieving Senior Level 63 at Microsoft - Blogger You can work hard and grind it out. (Not). These guys are typically outcome of recent hiring sprees. Great and timely post - thank you Mini! How do you ensure there is no conflict of interest. I could make changes quickly and with quality. That didnt happen by chance alone. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition!